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    • turbofandude

      Proper Problem Reporting for the TFDi Design 717   07/09/2017

      Folks, As the user count is increasing, it is becoming more of a task for us to stay on top of problem reports. We are also receiving an increasing amount of incomplete reports that we are unable to follow up on (which frustrates everyone, us included). On that note, we are going to be enforcing a stricter formal problem reporting system. There are a few main points that need to be addressed. ALL problem reports must be submitted via the Bugs and Suggestions system. Open discussion on the forums is fine, but our team simply cannot respond to every single comment (especially when the majority of doing so is asking for information the Bugs and Suggestions system already asks for). Incomplete reports will be ignored. This means reports like "my FPS is bad" will not be given weight. This isn't because we don't care. It is because a report like that does absolutely nothing for anyone - we can't fix it based on that. Please include EVERYTHING you can possibly think of regarding the problem and take as many steps as you can to isolate it. Prepar3D v4, despite what you have heard, can still be unstable. Yes, it is definitely possible to fly flights without issues. But it is still relatively new, as are most of the addons available for it. Please refrain from attacking us or other developers because of this. We have already had one scenario where a 717 CTD was resolved by an update to Prepar3D itself. This is likely not the only time that will be the case. You are still free to report the crashes, as it may help whoever the developers of the faulting code are solve the issue. Duplicate reports will be deleted/merged. For the sake of sanity for us trying to prioritize and evaluate issues, if we discover multiple reports of the same thing, we may merge/delete the duplicates. We strongly encourage you to search and see if your problem has been reported before. Thank you all in advance. This may seem overbearing, but this is the only way we are going to be able to stay on top and continue heading in the direction we, and the community, want.
ProfessorMadman

P3D V4 CTD - no errors

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Just watched two stream videos today of P3Dv4 users flying the 717. Both streams had the P3D crash on them within 10 minutes  of being airborne when switching views. I haven't seen anyone complete a flight yet in the 717. :( As a v3 user I'm still waiting for the black screen fix. 

Edited by Dan Moore

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First CTD when switching views a few minutes after takeoff for me too. I have no add-ons installed except for AS16.

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On 7/6/2017 at 3:15 PM, Skipy said:

Hello,

For my concern, I usually get crashes with P3Dv4 and the 717 when switching views. The last 2 tests I made:

Startup and takeoff from FlyTampa Amsterdam with FTX Global, Europe OpenLC, ASP4 stormy weather, RAAS Pro and FSUIPC. I made a 36C SID  to the South and went back to AMS for autoland ILS36R. No problem at all except poor fps especially under heavy rain and storms. I switched sveral times from VC to external view without problem except....  when I was almost arriving at the gate! ntdll.dll crash as ususal. I'm pretty sure if I just stay in the VC view all the time I won't have any crash.

A second test tonight always at AMS by night with lightning active and the crash occured after only 2 or 3 switches to external view. This time I got a TFDi error message with a dump (attached).

Hope it will help. For sure I have many addons but I didn't have any crash during my last flights with PMDG 777 and 747, switching many times the views to take snapshots.

Skip. 

TFDi717_MDump_7_6_2017_23_54_32.zip

@turbofandude

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In the last three days I've successfully completed two flights with the 717 (out of two attempted).  ChasePlane, AS16, and TrackIR active for the flights, multiple view swaps, an extended pause in one flight, and the second flight was out of the Washingon X airport addon.  I'm happy to report the flights went smoothly.  On the second flight, the displays powered up almost instantly instead of taking time to warm up, not sure why that happened, but there was no crash or hang.

It seems that, at least for me, either disabling the XMP memory profiling in my BIOS or doing an uninstall/reinstall of the 717 resolved my issue.  I haven't yet attempted to fly on VATSIM with it since the CTDs started, so that will be my next test.  I doubt it will cause trouble given that my CTDs had been happening offline.  If I experience any further problems, I'll report them, but hopefully this will be my last post in this thread.  Please advise if you'd like any specific testing from me.

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I completed just three flights so far and just one of them had a CTD switching views. Last flight I didn't change view at all and it went smoothly, while another flight I tried to switch views as I usually do and again no CTD. I have installed just AS16 and ORBX Global and LC Europe, nothing else. 

I'll keep on trying to report as much as I can.

 

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Active Sky DOES use custom memory code, as far as I know, and also interfaces with the view system. Please try disabling it and seeing if it still happens. Both the 717 AND Active Sky are still in beta for v4, so issues aren't unexpected.

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On 10/7/2017 at 4:24 AM, turbofandude said:

Active Sky DOES use custom memory code, as far as I know, and also interfaces with the view system. Please try disabling it and seeing if it still happens. Both the 717 AND Active Sky are still in beta for v4, so issues aren't unexpected.

I did some test flights, all with same route, time and payload. Only AS was active on half the flights and a crash occurred only on one of them with AS active. 

It seems a random event triggered by something when AS is active. I still have to try with the new update (6403). 

 

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I hope you guys narrow this down. I just did a new build with clean install of v4. I'm holding off installing the 717 due to the crashes and black screens in v3. Reading the post I understand you guys are trying to narrow down the problem but if you have to disable XMP, turn off add-ons, don't use ActiveSky, chaseplane, etc, than what's the point of flying the 717. I'm sure on a test machine with clean install and nothing else it works great. But a we all know users have tons of addons so it has to be able to tolerate the other programs and bios settings. 

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I encountered 2 CTDs (with no error message) this morning, doing a flight from TJSJ to KJFK.  The first about 5 mins in the air and the second shortly after takeoff.  In both cases, I was running Chaseplane (w. experimental features turned on) v0.3.32beta and with the final/release version of AS for P3D v4 (i.e. not the beta product).  I am doing the flight for the 3rd time but this time without AS running, only Chaseplane.  I am constantly switches views and also enabling cinematic mode and so far so good.....no CTD.  Will keep monitoring and advise if CTD occurs.

 

My specs are :

i7 4790k (OC)

980Ti (OC)

16gb ram

2xssds

P3D v4 (latest)

TFDi 1.0.92 (latest)

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Just finished the flight (TJSJ-KJFK) with no CTD.  I used Chaseplane quite extensively during the flight, even changed AA settings mid-flight and had no issues.  I will try another flight with AS and see, but at least based on today's experience, AS appears to be what caused my CTD.

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5 hours ago, hilkiah said:

Just finished the flight (TJSJ-KJFK) with no CTD.  I used Chaseplane quite extensively during the flight, even changed AA settings mid-flight and had no issues.  I will try another flight with AS and see, but at least based on today's experience, AS appears to be what caused my CTD.

Very interesting - v4 is still such a frontier of issues to be discovered. Thank you for reporting in. Hopefully others will experience similarly positive results.

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Hi,

Also want to let you know i also suffer from this so far. I havent been able to use my 717 much at all, but at this point in time do not seek a refund as i am optimistic that TFDi will discover what is causing the crash. From my point of view it seems very clear that this is a 717 issue, as i havent had any CTD on any other aircraft like this, and i have PMDG 737/747/777 + DHC6 (AS) , none of which crash, and i have ranked quite a lot of hours. So far it seems as though the staff here is avoiding the responsibility, i understand this as no crash log cant really prove that it is 717. But from what i am reading at this forum, and my own experience (tried about 6 flights, all CTD, all of them when moving from external to internal).

Until anyone does anything, my 717 is grounded... (but luckily we have the 737 fro short haul...)

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Hi Sebastien, I totally understand where you are coming from.

 

Since my above post I have attempted at least 6 flights and have been able to land twice.  In all cases I had AS enabled, however the issue I experienced was flight related which led to the plane being overstressed, during decent phase and at least 2 CTDs.  

My question is how do,i enable the 717 dump/log file?

Secondly I too suffer from Laggy displays (pfd And mfd).  My cockpit view is smooth, however, displays are very laggy.  I do use an AF of 85 and I have chaseplane running on CPUs 5 and 7, AS on 1 and 3 and p3d on 0,2,4,6.   I have a 4790k.  Does the milviz lighting process control the displays?  Note I am using lasso pro.

 

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44 minutes ago, hilkiah said:

Hi Sebastien, I totally understand where you are coming from.

 

Since my above post I have attempted at least 6 flights and have been able to land twice.  In all cases I had AS enabled, however the issue I experienced was flight related which led to the plane being overstressed, during decent phase and at least 2 CTDs.  

My question is how do,i enable the 717 dump/log file?

Secondly I too suffer from Laggy displays (pfd And mfd).  My cockpit view is smooth, however, displays are very laggy.  I do use an AF of 85 and I have chaseplane running on CPUs 5 and 7, AS on 1 and 3 and p3d on 0,2,4,6.   I have a 4790k.  Does the milviz lighting process control the displays?  Note I am using lasso pro.

 

The displays can usually be fixed by disabling hardware rendering in the addon manager. The 717 dump files are generated when a systems crash occurs, not a sim crash necessarily.

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Hello,

I thought the product was stabilized now as I didin't see any update and no problem during the last 2 flights I performed. Ntdll.dll P3Dv4 crash today during a short flight from Thessaloniki to Iraklion, just when ATC asked me to start descent 1f641.png. No more ntdll.dll crash with any other aircraft (PMDG) since P3dV4 hotfix.

It was my second flight of the day without rebooting my PC between them. I'll make another try on Saturday to see if the crash occurs again.

Skip.

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1 hour ago, Skipy said:

Hello,

I thought the product was stabilized now as I didin't see any update and no problem during the last 2 flights I performed. Ntdll.dll P3Dv4 crash today during a short flight from Thessaloniki to Iraklion, just when ATC asked me to start descent 1f641.png. No more ntdll.dll crash with any other aircraft (PMDG) since P3dV4 hotfix.

It was my second flight of the day without rebooting my PC between them. I'll make another try on Saturday to see if the crash occurs again.

Skip.

Have you tried disabling other addons to determine if it's a conflict?

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No... Too many addons and the 2 last flights with the 717 were without any issue. To begin this kind of test I should be able to reproduce the CTD to see what addon can impact it.

Cruising at FL290, autoflight, no addon aiport in the vicinity, no action on the sim... Perhaps an Active Sky P4 weather update that disturb something in the 717? I remember I switched on the weather radar at a moment to see storms around Athens. No problem there and I switched it off after. AI Traffic? Or simply a Nvidia driver problem as my PC was up for 10 hours with a first flight in the morning? The 717 seems to stress more the graphic cards than other planes.

My purpose here is to inform and log in case other people have ntdll.dll P3dv4 CTD.

Skip.

 

 

 

 

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Hi.

Updates applied this morning as I try again the same flight from Thessaloniki to Iraklion attempted 2 days ago.

- 1st try: P3Dv4 CTD ntdll.dll when I clicked for the first time on the tablet (didn't have this problem for a very long time)

- I set the "allow hardware rendering" for another try

- 2nd try : P3dV4 ended without any error just after begining descent (perhaps same place than 2 days ago)

Very strange. I have a NVidia GTX 1070. Should I use hardware rendering with P3Dv4?

I'll try exactly the same route this afternoon with CS737.

Skip.

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On 28/07/2017 at 1:48 AM, Skipy said:

No... Too many addons and the 2 last flights with the 717 were without any issue. To begin this kind of test I should be able to reproduce the CTD to see what addon can impact it.

The purpose of disabling addons are to eliminate the possibility of addons crashing the sim instead of the 717. I would suggest you disable all addons that are non scenery related (Scenery Add-on managers need to be disabled though as they may use hooking to achieve dynamic insertion and control of objects - and bugged hooking can cause crashes)

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3 hours ago, Joshua Che. said:

The purpose of disabling addons are to eliminate the possibility of addons crashing the sim instead of the 717. I would suggest you disable all addons that are non scenery related (Scenery Add-on managers need to be disabled though as they may use hooking to achieve dynamic insertion and control of objects - and bugged hooking can cause crashes)

Well Sir,

I just performed the same flight 4 hours later with same addons, same weather, same flightplan but CSIM 737-200 and no problem at all. I attached the coroute I used with the 717. My opinion is 717 needs a lot of graphic ressources and in conjonction with many addons, problem can occurs.

In this case the strange thing is the 2 CTD occured at the same place (perhaps when FSDG Heraklion is loading just after starting descent?) and this, not at the same hour in the day and with a very different weather (managed by ASP4+ASCA).

Concerning the ntdll.dll CTD when I clicked this morning on the tablet it didn't happen to me by the past.

Skip.

LGTSLGIR01.xml

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Hello,

Today I can perform a short but challenging flight between Heraklion and Samos. No issue at all :-). But for sure FSDG Heraklion and even 29 Palms Samos are not as "heavy" than FSDG Thessaloniki. No more OOM on P3Dv4 (on Fsx I can't land to LGTS with the 717 because of OOM) but perhaps graphic memory issue now?  I'm sure that I have less CTD since I change my GC Nvidia 1050 4Gb => Nvidia 1070 8Gb.

Skip.

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Another update from me as I have been holding off on flying this due to CTDs.  I figured I'd risk another flight tonight and am happy to confirm that I just completed a full 2 hour flight from Cairns (YBCS) to Alice Springs (YBAS) with version 1.0.9.6.  No CTD encountered and I did view switch quite a bit :D 

I will be doing some more runs to see if my CTD issue now finally gone.  If it is I'm not sure what would have caused it to disappear in all honesty as I haven't changed anything in my sim apart from adding more scenery.

EDIT:  Second flight which was a continuation on from YBAS to YAYE was also completed successfully, no CTD.  Loads of view switching (who wouldn't with this awesome scenery by ORBX!) :D 

C2x8DiA.png

 

Edited by ProfessorMadman

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Hi,

Many updates last days and I didn't have that chance today! Yet another ntdll.dll CTD approaching FSDT KCLT arriving from Imaginesim KLGA. It happened as I was switching view from VC to external. I really think that my problem is linked with the graphics complexity during the flight and its duration (using ASP4 + ASCA, ORBX Open LC Europe and North America). My last successfull flight was a short one from Héraklion to Samos over the sea.

Of course I'll perform the same flight I tried today with PMDG 737 and pretty sure no CTD will occur.

Skip.

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17 hours ago, Skipy said:

Hi,

Many updates last days and I didn't have that chance today! Yet another ntdll.dll CTD approaching FSDT KCLT arriving from Imaginesim KLGA. It happened as I was switching view from VC to external. I really think that my problem is linked with the graphics complexity during the flight and its duration (using ASP4 + ASCA, ORBX Open LC Europe and North America). My last successfull flight was a short one from Héraklion to Samos over the sea.

Of course I'll perform the same flight I tried today with PMDG 737 and pretty sure no CTD will occur.

Skip.

Yep, my stroke of luck has run out, I'm afraid.  Just had a sim hang with sound playing (but not CTD.  I left it for a good 3 minutes and no crash but I had to kill the Prepar3d.exe process) when switching view from external to inside on a test flight for Joshua from YBAS - YAYE with 1.0.9.6.  Same as you, I can do the exact same flight with PMDG 737 with the exact same addons and no CTD or hang occurs.

EDIT: and it happened again.  Simulator hangs visuals and sound still plays but does not CTD anymore like it did with previous builds.  Spinning blue Windows 10 circle of death when focusing on the sim and I have to kill the process to get out of the sim).

Edited by ProfessorMadman

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