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    • turbofandude

      Proper Problem Reporting for the TFDi Design 717   07/09/2017

      Folks, As the user count is increasing, it is becoming more of a task for us to stay on top of problem reports. We are also receiving an increasing amount of incomplete reports that we are unable to follow up on (which frustrates everyone, us included). On that note, we are going to be enforcing a stricter formal problem reporting system. There are a few main points that need to be addressed. ALL problem reports must be submitted via the Bugs and Suggestions system. Open discussion on the forums is fine, but our team simply cannot respond to every single comment (especially when the majority of doing so is asking for information the Bugs and Suggestions system already asks for). Incomplete reports will be ignored. This means reports like "my FPS is bad" will not be given weight. This isn't because we don't care. It is because a report like that does absolutely nothing for anyone - we can't fix it based on that. Please include EVERYTHING you can possibly think of regarding the problem and take as many steps as you can to isolate it. Prepar3D v4, despite what you have heard, can still be unstable. Yes, it is definitely possible to fly flights without issues. But it is still relatively new, as are most of the addons available for it. Please refrain from attacking us or other developers because of this. We have already had one scenario where a 717 CTD was resolved by an update to Prepar3D itself. This is likely not the only time that will be the case. You are still free to report the crashes, as it may help whoever the developers of the faulting code are solve the issue. Duplicate reports will be deleted/merged. For the sake of sanity for us trying to prioritize and evaluate issues, if we discover multiple reports of the same thing, we may merge/delete the duplicates. We strongly encourage you to search and see if your problem has been reported before. Thank you all in advance. This may seem overbearing, but this is the only way we are going to be able to stay on top and continue heading in the direction we, and the community, want.
ProfessorMadman

P3D V4 CTD - no errors

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Another log entry :)  I just completed a flight with 1.0.9.7 and had a sim freeze with sound playing during cruise after entering the flight deck from external view like I've been having with 1.0.9.6 (although with 1.0.9.6 I had the sim hang when simply at cruise in the flight deck as well).  With 1.0.9.5 and earlier builds the sim would simply CTD without errors.  Something must have changed (at least for me) between version .5 and .6 as since then my sim locks up instead of CTD and I have to kill the prepar3d.exe process manually.  Fortunately the fantastic state saving feature allowed me to resume the flight and land in without issue (also thanks out to FSUIPC autosave!).

That being said, @turbofandude, @Joshua Che. and the rest of the TFDi team did a great job with this update and even with the frustrating freezing issues I'm having it remains one of my favourite aircraft to fly in P3Dv4.  They really do listen to their users and if you provide constructive bug reports they do look into it.  The aircraft handled lateral NAV and vertical PROF perfectly although I had some ATS issues which I've already logged a bug for under the relevant forum section.

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7 hours ago, ProfessorMadman said:

Another log entry :)  I just completed a flight with 1.0.9.7 and had a sim freeze with sound playing during cruise after entering the flight deck from external view like I've been having with 1.0.9.6 (although with 1.0.9.6 I had the sim hang when simply at cruise in the flight deck as well).  With 1.0.9.5 and earlier builds the sim would simply CTD without errors.  Something must have changed (at least for me) between version .5 and .6 as since then my sim locks up instead of CTD and I have to kill the prepar3d.exe process manually.  Fortunately the fantastic state saving feature allowed me to resume the flight and land in without issue (also thanks out to FSUIPC autosave!).

That being said, @turbofandude, @Joshua Che. and the rest of the TFDi team did a great job with this update and even with the frustrating freezing issues I'm having it remains one of my favourite aircraft to fly in P3Dv4.  They really do listen to their users and if you provide constructive bug reports they do look into it.  The aircraft handled lateral NAV and vertical PROF perfectly although I had some ATS issues which I've already logged a bug for under the relevant forum section.

Thank you for the feedback and positivity! I actually experienced the view switching crash you had, but restarting ChasePlane and Active Sky seemed to resolve it, so I'm wondering if there still isn't some sort of conflict between the whole mix.

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2 hours ago, turbofandude said:

Thank you for the feedback and positivity! I actually experienced the view switching crash you had, but restarting ChasePlane and Active Sky seemed to resolve it, so I'm wondering if there still isn't some sort of conflict between the whole mix.

Hello,

My last CTD with 1.0.9.6 was again when switching views. I don't have ChasePlane but only PrecipitFX from VFX and ActiveSky P3dV4. My experience is this CTD occurs generaly when the flight environment is complex in graphical term and the longer it is the greater the chance of CTD is. 2 examples:

- Short flight LGIR LGSM over the sea with fair weather: No CTD (but nt the time to perform a lot of view switching)

- Longer flight over land with OpenLC, Global FTX, take off from New York with 2 airports addons (KLGA imaginesim and FSDT KJFK), very cloudy weather and approaching KATL imaginesim => CTD

Of course same the flight in the same conditions with PMDG 737 causes no CTD and I have less CTD since I have a bigger VRAM graphic card. Can it be linked with the Video RAM resource? My resolution is 3840*1024.

Skip.

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3 hours ago, Skipy said:

Hello,

My last CTD with 1.0.9.6 was again when switching views. I don't have ChasePlane but only PrecipitFX from VFX and ActiveSky P3dV4. My experience is this CTD occurs generaly when the flight environment is complex in graphical term and the longer it is the greater the chance of CTD is. 2 examples:

- Short flight LGIR LGSM over the sea with fair weather: No CTD (but nt the time to perform a lot of view switching)

- Longer flight over land with OpenLC, Global FTX, take off from New York with 2 airports addons (KLGA imaginesim and FSDT KJFK), very cloudy weather and approaching KATL imaginesim => CTD

Of course same the flight in the same conditions with PMDG 737 causes no CTD and I have less CTD since I have a bigger VRAM graphic card. Can it be linked with the Video RAM resource? My resolution is 3840*1024.

Skip.

I suppose it's possible - I think this could actually be it. We did a test recently where someone experiencing the issue disabled the DLL file (effectively stopping all of our code from running) and the crash still happened. What that tells me is that the issue is with the aircraft/sim itself - not the code. Perhaps the amount of VRAM being used contributes to some sort of internal issue with Prepar3D? Our model/textures may consume more than others, so it struggles. Can anybody else with this issue confirm?

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Well... If it's the case for those whi have many addons is tehre a way to add options to reduce VRAM usage in the VC for exemple? Terrain or weather radar definition, textures...?

Skip.

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I also had this issue just now with the latest update. Middle of the Flight from NZWN to NZQN. No logs :( 

Edited by snapshot21

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Interesting theory @Skipy and @turbofandude but I'm not so sure.  I ran a test flight with GPU-Z logging my VRAM usage in the background and had a P3D hang with the 717 as described (this time I actually wanted it!).  I have a GTX 980Ti with 6GB VRAM and run a triple monitor setup 2 x 144hz monitors @ 1440p and one 60hz at 1080p.  I run P3D in fullscreen mode on one 1440p monitor only (with blackout disabled).

I first loaded the PMDG 737 and view switched to oblivion and measured the VRAM usage - it hovered around 4900MB.  Then proceeded to load the 717 and view switched - VRAM peaked at 6021MB but I had no crash.  I then proceeded to set up a test flight and view switched as much as possible during the departure.  Had a P3D hang just now with VRAM at 5229MB so it can't be VRAM exhaustion causing it.  At the time of the hang my GPU load was also very very low (between 2 - 6%) and temperature around 61 degrees Celcius.

I can provide the log data if you want to scrutinise it more.  I'll try to reduce my texture size from 4096x4096 down to 2048x2048 and see if that makes a difference?  With no VAS restriction on v4 I run my settings pretty much at the limits which is something I could never do in v3 so maybe that's got something to do with it.  Will keep poking at theories to see if we can identify the cause.

Edited by ProfessorMadman

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Well, it was just a theory. I remeber that during my very first flight on P3Dv4 with another graphic card half VRAM than today I had the same type of CTD with PDMG 747 approaching by night FSDT Honolulu with OpenLC NA. Then as I was placing the 717 at Honolulu Hawaiian gate and was begining to taxi for a test I also had the same CTD at the first view switch.

Since I change my graphic card (and some updates with both P3Dv4 and PMDG 747) I never had a CTD with this huge plane (who was OOM terrific on FSX as the 717 was).

Today I just performed a KBUF to KIAD flight with the 1.0.9.7 without any issue but I have changed my texture size from 2048x2048 to 1024x1024 and not a very long flight. For sure I won't keep this setting for the other aircraft but my next 717 flights will be with that "low quality" setting. I'll see if CTD still occurs.

Skip.

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I'm still convinced this is a Prepar3D bug that our model is exposing. If we all start reporting this to Lockheed, it may force them to give us an answer and dig a bit. Even if it does require us to change the model/assets, maybe they can at least point us in the right direction. Please send me your event viewer logs from these crashes and I will start a report to them.

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6 hours ago, turbofandude said:

I'm still convinced this is a Prepar3D bug that our model is exposing. If we all start reporting this to Lockheed, it may force them to give us an answer and dig a bit. Even if it does require us to change the model/assets, maybe they can at least point us in the right direction. Please send me your event viewer logs from these crashes and I will start a report to them.

Hi Collin,

Fair enough, I appreciate you looking into this.  If you removed all your code and still had the issue then it has to be something specific with the combination of P3Dv4 and the 717.  The problem here is that I have nothing to go on to report to LM other than my own anecdotal evidence so far with v4.  I get no error messages in the Event Viewer, no debug logs, no mini dumps.  Nothing :(  

I have now done 64 flights in P3Dv4 using the 717, CRJ (a little unstable at the moment with other CTD issues), PMDG 737, 777 and 747 and the 717 is the only one with this specific issue where no error is logged whatsoever.  I can do anything from 16 hour long hauls in the T7 to short hops in the 737 without any issue.  As I mentioned previously, before build 1.0.9.6 my sim would simply CTD without a single trace of error in the logs.  Now with 1.0.9.6 and up my sim instead just hangs and when I kill it I get this rather useless and generic error in the Application Log in Event Viewer:

The program Prepar3D.exe version 4.0.28.21686 stopped interacting with Windows and was closed. To see if more information about the problem is available, check the problem history in the Security and Maintenance control panel.
 Process ID: d848
 Start Time: 01d3137125510601
 Termination Time: 215
 Application Path: D:\P3D\Prepar3D.exe
 Report Id: 077d0994-ed86-4920-8d9b-0d97ef35ad4b
 Faulting package full name: 
 Faulting package-relative application ID: 

I'm going to try and faff around with the model and replace the external with something and do some further testing with graphic settings for now but I don't think LM will appreciate us going to them without any error messages on this illusive issue just yet.  If I can find some consistent method of reproducing the crash/hang instead of it randomly occurring I'll post it here and tag you guys.  Thanks for your interest and again for acknowledging that a problem does exist.  Let's hope we can find the cause soon so that we can all enjoy this amazing creation :) 

Edited by ProfessorMadman

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1 hour ago, ProfessorMadman said:

Hi Collin,

Fair enough, I appreciate you looking into this.  If you removed all your code and still had the issue then it has to be something specific with the combination of P3Dv4 and the 717.  The problem here is that I have nothing to go on to report to LM other than my own anecdotal evidence so far with v4.  I get no error messages in the Event Viewer, no debug logs, no mini dumps.  Nothing :(  

I have now done 64 flights in P3Dv4 using the 717, CRJ (a little unstable at the moment with other CTD issues), PMDG 737, 777 and 747 and the 717 is the only one with this specific issue where no error is logged whatsoever.  I can do anything from 16 hour long hauls in the T7 to short hops in the 737 without any issue.  As I mentioned previously, before build 1.0.9.6 my sim would simply CTD without a single trace of error in the logs.  Now with 1.0.9.6 and up my sim instead just hangs and when I kill it I get this rather useless and generic error in the Application Log in Event Viewer:


The program Prepar3D.exe version 4.0.28.21686 stopped interacting with Windows and was closed. To see if more information about the problem is available, check the problem history in the Security and Maintenance control panel.
 Process ID: d848
 Start Time: 01d3137125510601
 Termination Time: 215
 Application Path: D:\P3D\Prepar3D.exe
 Report Id: 077d0994-ed86-4920-8d9b-0d97ef35ad4b
 Faulting package full name: 
 Faulting package-relative application ID: 

I'm going to try and faff around with the model and replace the external with something and do some further testing with graphic settings for now but I don't think LM will appreciate us going to them without any error messages on this illusive issue just yet.  If I can find some consistent method of reproducing the crash/hang instead of it randomly occurring I'll post it here and tag you guys.  Thanks for your interest and again for acknowledging that a problem does exist.  Let's hope we can find the cause soon so that we can all enjoy this amazing creation :) 

I appreciate you working with us and having some patience - it's definitely frustrating for us, too. And agreed, going to them with nothing to show likely isn't the best course of action. @SGCSam and @gamesyns keep your eyes out please - let's see if we can find any patterns or ANYTHING to start digging.

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Looks like I've just had a "view switch" CTD enroute from KLGA to KIAD. I had changed the time of day to evening to check out the new lighting (which is, btw, fantastic - thanks for that) and then went to an external view. No ChasePlane, but using ActiveSky. On reentering the cockpit P3D froze and then crashed:

Faulting application name: Prepar3D.exe, version: 4.0.28.21686, time stamp: 0x594a7255
Faulting module name: KERNELBASE.dll, version: 10.0.14393.1532, time stamp: 0x5965ac8c
Exception code: 0xc000041d
Fault offset: 0x0000000000033c58
Faulting process ID: 0x2690
Faulting application start time: 0x01d3143ce451d138
Faulting application path: F:\Prepar3D v4\Prepar3D.exe
Faulting module path: C:\WINDOWS\System32\KERNELBASE.dll
Report ID: fa57e833-ba2e-4e9e-8408-0b320a2573fa
Faulting package full name: 
Faulting package-relative application ID: 

 

cheers

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Just experienced the infamous CTD with no error.  

I figured I would give the 717 a try after the recent updates (1.0.9.7).  I was able to setup my flight plan (TNCM DCT DANDE A516 LUCAS DCT SINDA TNCC) and didn't get the INSUFFICIENT FUEL error...which is good!  I took off and had just reached my T/C (FL320).  I was switching views (chaseplane to default sim view F11) and then boom....P3D crashed with no error.  

My Event View -> Applications contains no errors.  The only logfile in P3D that has a timestamp close to the crash is dxgi.log (linked below) :

dxgi.log

 

Are there any files which should be uploaded when these crashes occur that would actually help in diagnosing the problem?

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Okay so here's a synopsis of my test run today.  I spent 6 hours with the 717 in sim today and just now had a hang for the first time.  I've been experimenting with reducing my texture resolution and set mine to 2048x2048 in the sim.  I did a casual flight around NZQN and view switched and performed a takeoff and landing no issues.  Without restarting I then went on to doing a YMML - YBBN - YBAS - YAYE run.

First leg YMML - YBBN was fine, no issues, perfect flight online.  I switched views a lot and the aircraft performed beautifully.  It flew the arrival perfectly as well.  No ATS issues, not autoflight issues.  Long turn at YBBN as I was watching VATSIM traffic land and was switching views to deliberately try and get the sim to lock up.  

Second leg YBBN - YBAS - all fine for about 2 hours and then a graphical hang in sim (with sound still playing) whilst in cruise inbound WILLS fix (literally in the middle of nowhere so not possibly taxing the sim in any way) in the flight deck not touching a thing.  Interestingly, I could still see my aircraft move on ProjectFly and VATSPY - so I decided to use my joystick button mapped to ChasePlane and switch to external view and I could hear the external engine sounds but the visuals remained in the flight deck.  I could switch back too and hear the internal sounds again but the visuals were totally "locked up".  I had to kill the process and load an FSUIPC autosave to resume.  

I was so optimistic about the progress of my test with 2048x2048 until the hang occurred that I drafted a long post here and had to delete it :(  Bummed out and still nowhere near to finding the cause.

I'll try reducing texture res even further like Spiky suggested (1024x1024) and see if that makes a difference.  It's probably a red herring but 6 hours and 2 and a half flights in the 717 without a single CTD/hang/crash is certainly more than I've been able to achieve since P3Dv4 came out.

Edited by ProfessorMadman

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Hi everyone,

Disclaimer: Due to the number of add-ons and hardware on the market each of our computers are distinct, so what is causing me the CTD might not be the case for you.

So I did 15 flights in the last 3 days on the exact same route: ENTC IDLIN ADAPU RATUL ENAT.

My idea was to focus, test and monitor my add-ons which interact with Prepar3D v4 in this specific order:

- Active Sky
- ChasePlane
- AivlaSoft EFB  

My other add-ons are sceneries, so a low probability to cause any CTD(unless your resources are exhausted) and I deactivated my AV.

So I started with Active Sky in different weather conditions and I ended up with 5 CTD without error messages in the Event Viewer, no debug logs, no mini dumps.
Then I switched to FSXWX and could finish my flights and then back and forth between AS and FSXWX. The results was that the CTD appeared only with AS. 

Now I'm not saying Active Sky is the culprit because I've also ASCA, but after using the AS debugging mode I could match the CTD when they happen with the weather injection.

Edited by Ransu

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1 hour ago, Ransu said:

Hi everyone,

Disclaimer: Due to the number of add-ons and hardware on the market each of our computers are distinct, so what is causing me the CTD might not be the case for you.

So I did 15 flights in the last 3 days on the exact same route: ENTC IDLIN ADAPU RATUL ENAT.

My idea was to focus, test and monitor my add-ons which interact with Prepar3D v4 in this specific order:

- Active Sky
- ChasePlane
- AivlaSoft EFB  

My other add-ons are sceneries, so a low probability to cause any CTD(unless your resources are exhausted) and I deactivated my AV.

So I started with Active Sky in different weather conditions and I ended up with 5 CTD without error messages in the Event Viewer, no debug logs, no mini dumps.
Then I switched to FSXWX and could finish my flights and then back and forth between AS and FSXWX. The results was that the CTD appeared only with AS. 

Now I'm not saying Active Sky is the culprit because I've also ASCA, but after using the AS debugging mode I could match the CTD when they happen with the weather injection.

Very, very interesting Ransu.  I know that there are people that do not get crashes with the 717 in v4 and others consistently do.  I've done further testing doing island hops in the 717 in Hawaii and have had flights where I had hangs and ones where I didn't.  Nothing consistent whatsoever and I've debunked my texture resolution theory too lol.  

I was using AS in P3Dv3 as well with the 717 and never had any problems but that's not to say that some gremlin got introduced in v4 relating to compatibility between these two products.  @turbofandude would a forum poll on users experiencing crashes using Acitve Sky or not maybe provide some statistics to strengthen or debunk this theory?

EDIT: Ok so I flew HNL - ITO without Active Sky running and still had a crash (again when returning to flight deck after external view).

Edited by ProfessorMadman

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12 hours ago, ProfessorMadman said:

Very, very interesting Ransu.  I know that there are people that do not get crashes with the 717 in v4 and others consistently do.  I've done further testing doing island hops in the 717 in Hawaii and have had flights where I had hangs and ones where I didn't.  Nothing consistent whatsoever and I've debunked my texture resolution theory too lol.  

I was using AS in P3Dv3 as well with the 717 and never had any problems but that's not to say that some gremlin got introduced in v4 relating to compatibility between these two products.  @turbofandude would a forum poll on users experiencing crashes using Acitve Sky or not maybe provide some statistics to strengthen or debunk this theory?

EDIT: Ok so I flew HNL - ITO without Active Sky running and still had a crash (again when returning to flight deck after external view).

Hi,

In my case it is quite simple :)  Active sky on = crash, no Active sky = no crash.

Are we looking at  separate causes off the crash ?

Regards

Simon Ward

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2 hours ago, Sanpp said:

Switching my textures to 2048x2048 fixed CTDs while switching views!

Try that!

Hi,

What resolution? Any addons with heavy textures such as ORBX, airports or active sky clouds?

My concern I had CTDs with 2048x2048 but trying now 1024x1024 (already one successfull flight). I'll try today a LEBB (ORBX) to LEBL (Justsim) flight over FTX Global, ORBX Open_LC Europe and with Active Sky P4 of course.

Skip.

EDIT: Flight completed. No CTD with many view switches. I'll try a test with 4096x4096 setting and will post the CTD if any.

Edited by Skipy
Flight result
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2 hours ago, Sanpp said:

Switching my textures to 2048x2048 fixed CTDs while switching views!

Try that!

 

2 hours ago, Skipy said:

Hi,

What resolution? Any addons with heavy textures such as ORBX, airports or active sky clouds?

My concern I had CTDs with 2048x2048 but trying now 1024x1024 (already one successfull flight). I'll try today a LEBB (ORBX) to LEBL (Justsim) flight over FTX Global, ORBX Open_LC Europe and with Active Sky P4 of course.

Skip.

EDIT: Flight completed. No CTD with many view switches. I'll try a test with 4096x4096 setting and will post the CTD if any.

FWIW I'm running @1440p.  I've done quite a few Hawaiian hops now at both 4096 and 2048 resolutions and have had successful flights with both resolutions but also crashed with both (and the ones that were successful involved a LOT of view switching).  Next try is like Skipy with 1024x1024 but that'll come after a week as I'm off on holiday next week.

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Hello,

I was just positioning the 717 on my new Napoli X Airport so I kept my 2048x2048 setting and after a few view switching I got a 717 error message with dump enclosed and my Nvidia driver crashed also. Very strange...

By the way I performed a flight this afternoon with PMDG 737 landing at Aerosoft EDDF and didn't reboot my PC meanwhile.

 

Skip.

TFDi717_MDump_8_19_2017_19_44_17.zip

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On ‎19‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 7:52 PM, Skipy said:

Hello,

I was just positioning the 717 on my new Napoli X Airport so I kept my 2048x2048 setting and after a few view switching I got a 717 error message with dump enclosed and my Nvidia driver crashed also. Very strange...

By the way I performed a flight this afternoon with PMDG 737 landing at Aerosoft EDDF and didn't reboot my PC meanwhile.

 

Skip.

TFDi717_MDump_8_19_2017_19_44_17.zip

Hello,

Sorry but my last CTD report wasn't due to the 717 but new NapoliX Addon! Now it's fixed but I had layers conflicts between NapoliX and ORBX OpenLC.

Another flight today with low resolution texture and no CTD... Nothing to do there but I found the autoland is less accurate than on my FSX? Long landings and not on centerline.

Skip.

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14 hours ago, Skipy said:

Hello,

Sorry but my last CTD report wasn't due to the 717 but new NapoliX Addon! Now it's fixed but I had layers conflicts between NapoliX and ORBX OpenLC.

Another flight today with low resolution texture and no CTD... Nothing to do there but I found the autoland is less accurate than on my FSX? Long landings and not on centerline.

Skip.

Agreed! Autoland tried only 2 times since I have the 717

Only worked (properly) at EHAM 

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Just suffered a CTD on my initial climb out of TJSJ (flight to KMIA).  I switched to the F11 external view and was watching the bird climb.  I noticed the nose was a bit high, so I switched back to the internal view (using a chase plane hotkey) and then it froze.  Got the popup box indicating P3D had stopped responding.

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