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      Proper Problem Reporting for the TFDi Design 717   07/09/2017

      Folks, As the user count is increasing, it is becoming more of a task for us to stay on top of problem reports. We are also receiving an increasing amount of incomplete reports that we are unable to follow up on (which frustrates everyone, us included). On that note, we are going to be enforcing a stricter formal problem reporting system. There are a few main points that need to be addressed. ALL problem reports must be submitted via the Bugs and Suggestions system. Open discussion on the forums is fine, but our team simply cannot respond to every single comment (especially when the majority of doing so is asking for information the Bugs and Suggestions system already asks for). Incomplete reports will be ignored. This means reports like "my FPS is bad" will not be given weight. This isn't because we don't care. It is because a report like that does absolutely nothing for anyone - we can't fix it based on that. Please include EVERYTHING you can possibly think of regarding the problem and take as many steps as you can to isolate it. Prepar3D v4, despite what you have heard, can still be unstable. Yes, it is definitely possible to fly flights without issues. But it is still relatively new, as are most of the addons available for it. Please refrain from attacking us or other developers because of this. We have already had one scenario where a 717 CTD was resolved by an update to Prepar3D itself. This is likely not the only time that will be the case. You are still free to report the crashes, as it may help whoever the developers of the faulting code are solve the issue. Duplicate reports will be deleted/merged. For the sake of sanity for us trying to prioritize and evaluate issues, if we discover multiple reports of the same thing, we may merge/delete the duplicates. We strongly encourage you to search and see if your problem has been reported before. Thank you all in advance. This may seem overbearing, but this is the only way we are going to be able to stay on top and continue heading in the direction we, and the community, want.
Dan Moore

717 Throttles stopped responding

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I was 3/4 into a flight from KATL to KORD when I noticed my engines throttle back to idle. The throttles themselves were forward and the FMC had .776 programed in. I had plenty of fuel at FL360. I was 40 miles from TD when I noticed this. I disconnected the AT and tried to advanced the throttles. I would get an indication on the ND and the throttles that I was moving them but I got no response from the engines themselves. I had no warning lights to indicate there was a problem until the stall warning system alerted me of my slow speed. I'm using 1.0.9.7 on a brand new PC build with P3Dv4. 

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It was more like engine thrust just stopped working. It reminded me of BA Flight 38. Yoke and throttles moved but I wasn't getting power from the engines. Its like they spooled down to idle and nothing I did brought them back up. Plenty of gas, no warnings except stall warnings when plane was getting to slow. I was getting throttle position on the displays as I was moving them forward. Just no thrust. This was my third flight for the day, rebooted after each flight. Only thing different about this flight was it was longer, higher and had the strange FMC issues that I posted earlier. 

Edited by Dan Moore

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10 minutes ago, Joshua Che. said:

You are really sure the displays didn't stop working? (Need the symptoms to trace the issues) What N1/N2/EPR does the engine show/get stuck on? 

I wish I had recorded the event. The displays worked because I could see the throttle indicators move as I was cycling the throttle on the EPR gauges but I didn't catch the rest. I do know the engines were not shut down as I could still hear them. I will repeat the flight again tomorrow and see if I can record the event. I did do a screen grab 30 min before the event. Not sure if it will help. 

https://prnt.sc/g7g9tx

Edited by Dan Moore

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Hi

Same here!

I just tried to complete a flight between YSSY and YPAD. As the a/c turned onto the RNAV final runway 05 the throttles stopped responding! Everything else worked but the engines spooled down to idle. The throttles themselves moved up to accelerate the engine to capture FMC speed but to no avail - engines remained at idle. Ultimately crashing. What now??

Don Dormehl

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I can confirm this also happened on my first flight with the 717 but not any subsequent ones.  It happened just as I saved a scenario at the time in cruise.  Suddenly my thrust went to idle so I disconnected ATS and firewalled my throttles but the thrust stayed on IDLE.  Funnily enough, re-engaging ATS annunciated correctly in the PFD in magenta but the thrust still stayed at idle on the EAD.  I reloaded the save and the problem went away so thought of it as a one-off glitch and didn't bother writing a bug report.

Edited by ProfessorMadman

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2 hours ago, ProfessorMadman said:

I can confirm this also happened on my first flight with the 717 but not any subsequent ones.  It happened just as I saved a scenario at the time in cruise.  Suddenly my thrust went to idle so I disconnected ATS and firewalled my throttles but the thrust stayed on IDLE.  Funnily enough, re-engaging ATS annunciated correctly in the PFD in magenta but the thrust still stayed at idle on the EAD.  I reloaded the save and the problem went away so thought of it as a one-off glitch and didn't bother writing a bug report.

Did you restart the sim before reloading? I think I might have an idea on what happened.

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25 minutes ago, Joshua Che. said:

Did you restart the sim before reloading? I think I might have an idea on what happened.

No sir, just a straight up reload of the situation I just saved a few seconds prior which led to the problem.

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Driver8   

I'll need to try switching the FADEC to Alternate next time :)

Meantime - for the TFDI team...  I don't see a bug report filed in the Bugs section - do you guys want a bug report for this started?  Also, if you need a persistence save while it's going on, let me know, I grabbed one last night.

For me, the engines stopped producing thrust immediately after I saved my flight in FSX (noticed at least one user above posting the same thing).  I know there is a "experimental fix" from another thread that supposedly stops the engines from surging on startup, I do NOT have that "experimental fix" installed (though I might do that later today as I also had that problem too).

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etops   

Having the same issue with the latest version 1.0.9.10. Happened just after I saved the flight on P3D V4.. I've shuted down the engines in flight, tried to restart, it doesn't work.. So I've landed on the closest airport. On the ground I've managed to restart the engines.

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5 minutes ago, etops said:

Having the same issue with the latest version 1.0.9.10. Happened just after I saved the flight on P3D V4.. I've shuted down the engines in flight, tried to restart, it doesn't work.. So I've landed on the closest airport. On the ground I've managed to restart the engines.

Did you mean you set the engines to idle? It does not make sense to shut down the engine in flight, and its not fully simulated.

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skyymann   

This happened to me as well between KATL and KDAL. Throttle shows movement with a corresponding instrument movement, but the engines remained at idle. I had to actually shut the engines down, then restart to get power back. I'm just happy this happened at FL360 so I had time to find a fix.

 

Scott

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Driver8   
30 minutes ago, skyymann said:

This happened to me as well between KATL and KDAL. Throttle shows movement with a corresponding instrument movement, but the engines remained at idle. I had to actually shut the engines down, then restart to get power back. I'm just happy this happened at FL360 so I had time to find a fix.

 

Scott

When it happens, for me (granted i'm still on FSX), I've just switched the FADEC to ALT for both engines as noted by 80erhelmi above.  The engines then respond to manual thrust, so I advance the throttles, then switch the FADEC back to normal and re-engage autothrottle.  So far, it's worked every time for me.

I REALLY need some video capturing software so I can get some video of this stuff :) 

Also, if anyone hasn't read the documentation and needs to know, the FADEC switches are the two guarded switches just above the engine starter switches on the overhead.

Edited by Driver8

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molleh   
42 minutes ago, Driver8 said:

I REALLY need some video capturing software so I can get some video of this stuff :) 

If you're on Windows 10, you can just use the built in "Xbox DVR" feature to record videos by pressing Windows + alt + R (press again to stop recording.) The videos will then show up in your Windows 10 Videos\Captures folder.

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Driver8   
11 minutes ago, molleh said:

If you're on Windows 10, you can just use the built in "Xbox DVR" feature to record videos by pressing Windows + alt + R (press again to stop recording.) The videos will then show up in your Windows 10 Videos\Captures folder.

Nice!  Thanks!!  Learn something new every day! :)  

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Talking about throttles, when one selects a "Derate-2" prior to takeoff is the EPR supposed to stop and maintain that calculated amount? It's not happening here, as I advance the throttles the EPR will go past the magenta mark. Upon thrust reduction thereafter it seems to position correctly at "Climb-2", that I also selected prior to takeoff.

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