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bob3464

Complete Systems Shutdown Mid-Flight - VATSIM

Question

I have the craziest problem going on here.

Flying along all happy  between Atlanta and Chicago and suddenly all systems shut down.

http://prntscr.com/h00noy

I log off vpilot - get everything re-started again (with ctl-e) - get back onto the flight plan - re-connect to vpilot - as soon as the frequency tune sound comes up (119.55), everything turns off again.

I reload up, fly along great. Give it a few minutes - re-connect to vpilot and bam. All systems off again.

v1.09.14

P3D 4.1 - win 10, vpilot, DAL livery, vatsim route:  VARNM2 RESPE IIU OKK FISSK4  over the IIU VOR (Louisville)

Any ideas - please help.

Thanks,


Bob

Edited by bob3464

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Got some help in the vpilot forum.

It seems when model matching imports my Carenado planes as AI, they glitch out the mixture. Probably some goofy simconnect issue that I wouldn't understand anyway - but the removal of the Carenado aircraft in the model matching import on vPilot seems to have solved the issue.

 

BD

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@bob3464 It is possible that the fuel dumped to 0 for a second, as we use a custom fuel simulation (so our systems would not see that brief dump. This is true for both the default mixture and fuel - if they cut to 0, even for a single frame, this can happen, despite our systems forcing them the correct values. If you're able to reliably recreate this, we could see about setting up a TeamViewer session or similar to take a direct look.

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On 1/20/2018 at 10:35 PM, bob3464 said:

Got some help in the vpilot forum.

It seems when model matching imports my Carenado planes as AI, they glitch out the mixture. Probably some goofy simconnect issue that I wouldn't understand anyway - but the removal of the Carenado aircraft in the model matching import on vPilot seems to have solved the issue.

 

BD

Either this or something to do with your mixture axis assignment. @Dave C

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I have had nearly the same issue the last two flights.  I am flying on VATSIM, leave KMCO, get about 15 minutes outside of JFK and as the traffic builds, engines suddenly shut down.  I haven't been able to get them to restart, so I go to the ipad and click ready to fly.  Will run for 5 minutes or so and they shut down again.  This happened about 3 times, than once I was past the heavy traffic and descending (wondered if below FL300 it might have been better) I didn't have an issue again.  But my flight plan and everything was gone so I was than flying on heading, speed autopilot not vnav and lnav.  The main trigger to me seemed to be JFK, heavier traffic and maybe altitude above FL300.  Getting very frustrating.  I have essentially lost two, 3 hour flights.

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I'm having trouble inducing the error today.

Since this happened last night during Friday Night Ops with a ton of traffic in the airspace, I'm wondering if it was induced by a nearby AI aircraft - or maybe my model set using the tfdi 717 as an ai aircraft?

Could it glitch out like that?

 

The saved scenario I have was showing 30% fuel with the engines out.

Edited by bob3464

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19 hours ago, bob3464 said:

Hey TFD™... Thanks for the response. I'll see if I can setup and save a situation where this is repeatable and let you know. Thanks very much for the TeamViewer offer. It would be fantastic if we found something. 

Heading on a quick business trip and will be back before the weekend. I'll let you know via this thread or a PM. 

Regards,

Bob

Not a problem - please do let me know!

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On 10/23/2017 at 8:42 PM, turbofandude said:

@bob3464 It is possible that the fuel dumped to 0 for a second, as we use a custom fuel simulation (so our systems would not see that brief dump. This is true for both the default mixture and fuel - if they cut to 0, even for a single frame, this can happen, despite our systems forcing them the correct values. If you're able to reliably recreate this, we could see about setting up a TeamViewer session or similar to take a direct look.

Collin:

I have a theory here. It's weather related... I noticed I get a bump right before everything shuts down....   which then makes sense about logging into vatsim because I'm pretty sure it injects weathers. I'm running AS P3D, but with the vatsim weather box checked.

The reason I think so, the very same problem happened to me tonight in the Aerosoft CRJ. I got a big bump, all the systems shut down, and the plane went diving.

Is there any technical reason why weather injection from vatsim would cause the systems to flicker and shutdown? The Aerosoft CRJ behaved much crazier (nose high climb) than your 717, but same issue - all engines quit.

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3 hours ago, bob3464 said:

Collin:

I have a theory here. It's weather related... I noticed I get a bump right before everything shuts down....   which then makes sense about logging into vatsim because I'm pretty sure it injects weathers. I'm running AS P3D, but with the vatsim weather box checked.

The reason I think so, the very same problem happened to me tonight in the Aerosoft CRJ. I got a big bump, all the systems shut down, and the plane went diving.

Is there any technical reason why weather injection from vatsim would cause the systems to flicker and shutdown? The Aerosoft CRJ behaved much crazier (nose high climb) than your 717, but same issue - all engines quit.

Could it be an erroneous simconnect call by the vatsim client you are using? If you use another client, does the error persist?

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19 hours ago, gamesyns said:

Could it be an erroneous simconnect call by the vatsim client you are using? If you use another client, does the error persist?

Good point. I'm running a beta version of vPilot. 

I'm not motivated enough to reinstall FSInn or SB, but I can do some flights with and w/out vPilot. Then stable vs beta. 

Since AS P3D is using simconnect - I'll try a few scenarios there as well.  Thanks for the tip.

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One more update. I had the same problem (among all kinds of others) in the Blackbox A330 yesterday.

I combed through all my P3D settings and the most likely culprit was having "engine stress damages engines" ticked on.

It seems each time this engine shutdown occurs there's a surge in air temp or turbulence. Why this happens in the B712, B777, CRJ but not the PMDG 737 and 747 is anybody's guess, but I think I have it isolated to this setting.

Since I've taken this option off, no issues.... so far.

 

Bob

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I had what appears to be the exact same problem today on a vatsim flight.  Engines shutdown mid-flight on their own with plenty of fuel remaining (started with 16,000 and was somewhere around 12,000 remaining).  My DUs were reporting the same warnings as your screenshot.  Tried multiple things to to restart the engines... APU started, APU air on, and APU bus tie ON, but battery still indicated Emergency Power ON and Battery Discharging.  Ram air did not appear to do anything (but I'm not certain what it is used for).  Start pump on.  I turned the packs off.  Engine start knob glowing red, fuel switches on, but no restart.  I gave up and shutdown.

I had a possibly similar issue with the PMDG 777 a few weeks ago where the engines shutdown for no reason mid-flight.  PMDG support asked if mixture control was mapped to an axis possibly tripped a fuel cutoff, but I was never able to recreate the problem after several flights.   In today's 717 failure I took focus away from the PD3 screen to open a browser and I heard the engines spooling down in the background, so I returned to the P3D screen to find out what was happening.

Jason
P3D v4.1, TFDi 717 v1.0.9.15

Edited by JasonS

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31 minutes ago, gamesyns said:

Either this or something to do with your mixture axis assignment. @Dave C

tried both of them, flight was uneventful for 3 hours, as soon as i got to the southcoast of the UK the engines failed. i didn't have any carenado aircraft or any mixture assignments :(

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3 hours ago, Dave C said:

tried both of them, flight was uneventful for 3 hours, as soon as i got to the southcoast of the UK the engines failed. i didn't have any carenado aircraft or any mixture assignments :(

Hmm, has this happened multiple times? Do you know of any way to recreate it?

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10 hours ago, Greg9154 said:

I have had nearly the same issue the last two flights.  I am flying on VATSIM, leave KMCO, get about 15 minutes outside of JFK and as the traffic builds, engines suddenly shut down.  I haven't been able to get them to restart, so I go to the ipad and click ready to fly.  Will run for 5 minutes or so and they shut down again.  This happened about 3 times, than once I was past the heavy traffic and descending (wondered if below FL300 it might have been better) I didn't have an issue again.  But my flight plan and everything was gone so I was than flying on heading, speed autopilot not vnav and lnav.  The main trigger to me seemed to be JFK, heavier traffic and maybe altitude above FL300.  Getting very frustrating.  I have essentially lost two, 3 hour flights.

Sounds like something is being assigned to the mixture axis or is modifying the mixture axis. Make sure it is unassigned in the sim/FSUIPC and that you do not have any other add-on aircraft being used as traffic models.

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Yes, but doesn't that defeat the purpose of having add on aircraft?  I am pretty sure I don't have mixture assigned, but will confirm.  Thanks

Greg

 

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7 hours ago, Greg9154 said:

Yes, but doesn't that defeat the purpose of having add on aircraft?  I am pretty sure I don't have mixture assigned, but will confirm.  Thanks

Greg

 

Add-on aircraft are not supposed to be used as AI traffic, since some of these load custom scripts for them. As noted earlier in this thread, some carenado aircraft will set the mixture axis to something below 100% which will cause engine shutdown.

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This seems to have worked so far.  No shutdown last night.  Only thing I did was remove all add on aircraft from Vpilot.  I'll update if there are more issues.  Thanks so much.

Greg

 

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On 2/11/2018 at 2:39 PM, Dave C said:

Hi Guys

 

I am also having this problem with the 717 however it occurred on the CS757 III too. all other aircraft seemed to be ok. do we know what might be causing the random shut downs?

 

Cheers

Hi Dave... It was Carenado aircraft being imported by vPilot model matching. I went into vpilot, settings, model matching, advanced, simobjects - and unchecked all Carenado models.
They have a funky anti-piracy thing with their aircraft, and when model-matching places another copy near you, it does the shutdown thing. 
Since I've unchecked them in vPilot - I never had the issue again.

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I disabled Carenado aircraft in my Vpilot  model matching. Seemed to work, Ill let you know though after a couple of flights

 

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This is caused by Carenado aircraft as stated above, open Vpilot, go to the settings tab then model matching, advanced, expand the SimObjects\Airplanes and scroll down untill you find and Carenado aircraft, uncheck ALL of them, click Apply then OK, restart Vpilot and voila.... I highly reccomend doing this with the sim shutdown before you start a flight.

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It happened again tonight during the Sunday/Funday event into Tampa.

Was watching the fuel % carefully and it never moved from 40%. 

It doesn't look like an instant to 0% fuel is causing this.

After 2 ctl-e recoveries, I started descent and it didn't happen again.

 

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Hey TFD™... Thanks for the response. I'll see if I can setup and save a situation where this is repeatable and let you know. Thanks very much for the TeamViewer offer. It would be fantastic if we found something. 

Heading on a quick business trip and will be back before the weekend. I'll let you know via this thread or a PM. 

Regards,

15 minutes ago, turbofandude said:

@bob3464 It is possible that the fuel dumped to 0 for a second, as we use a custom fuel simulation (so our systems would not see that brief dump. This is true for both the default mixture and fuel - if they cut to 0, even for a single frame, this can happen, despite our systems forcing them the correct values. If you're able to reliably recreate this, we could see about setting up a TeamViewer session or similar to take a direct look.

Bob

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8 hours ago, JasonS said:

I had what appears to be the exact same problem today on a vatsim flight.  Engines shutdown mid-flight on their own with plenty of fuel remaining (started with 16,000 and was somewhere around 12,000 remaining).  My DUs were reporting the same warnings as your screenshot.  Tried multiple things to to restart the engines... APU started, APU air on, and APU bus tie ON, but battery still indicated Emergency Power ON and Battery Discharging.  Ram air did not appear to do anything (but I'm not certain what it is used for).  Start pump on.  I turned the packs off.  Engine start knob glowing red, fuel switches on, but no restart.  I gave up and shutdown.

I had a possibly similar issue with the PMDG 777 a few weeks ago where the engines shutdown for no reason mid-flight.  PMDG support asked if mixture control was mapped to an axis possibly tripped a fuel cutoff, but I was never able to recreate the problem after several flights.   In today's 717 failure I took focus away from the PD3 screen to open a browser and I heard the engines spooling down in the background, so I returned to the P3D screen to find out what was happening.

Jason
P3D v4.1, TFDi 717 v1.0.9.15

I thought it was the "engine stress causes damage" setting, but it wasn't. Had a complete engine-out episode in ZLA tonight in the 717.

If you find anything - keep me posted.

 

Also Jason - do you happen to have GoFlight TQ6 throttle?

Edited by bob3464

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